Fansubs/Scanlations: The Debate

[Lord Il]

It's think it's time for a good ol' fashioned debate; A topic which always garners much talk in anime/manga forums.

I'll keep this topic fairly broad to start. Anyone can state and elaborate their views on this as much or as little as they see fit. A poll is included for the curious. I just ask that we keep this civil.... No picking up and throwing chairs at people. Furniture is expensive!
(You know what I mean, right?)  

Topic: Fansubs/Scanlations
Are you for or against them?


What they are in a nutshell..

Fansubs - Anime episodes/movies recorded from sources such as television, internet broadcast, or DVD/Blu-ray rips which are translated and edited from one language to another by fansub groups. Distribution is primarily done via the interenet.

Scanlations - Scanned manga pages (sometimes pages are individually removed from the book) which are translated and edited from one language to different languages by scanlation groups. Distribution is usually done via the interenet.


GO!

[Mas]

I'm neutral on this. I guess I just don't care.

I live in Russia, and I rarely buy anything anime related, mainly because I just don't like watching Russian dubs (Gunslinger Girl and Slayers are the only anime that I own in Russian). But when I do buy something from overseas, it's usually because I watched fansubs first. I wouldn't know what's worth buying otherwise.

[Foggle]

But when I do buy something from overseas, it's usually because I watched fansubs first. I wouldn't know what's worth buying otherwise.

This, but without the "from overseas" part.

[Pointless]

*Ouch!* This fence hurts!

In the "olden days", before anime and manga went mainstream, fansubs, fandubs and scanlations were usually justified by the unavailability of any translated licensed commercial product. The ethical approach was to stop when a licensed product was about to become available.

Now that they're "mainstream", an argument could still be made for fansubs/scanlations if licensed, translated versions of the anime/manga were unlikely to ever become available.

Another situation where a scanlation or fansub might be justified is where the company with the license fails to continue a series. There are a couple of manga series that just ... stopped. DARN THEM! DARN THEM TO HECK!
 

[Randamo]

Im ooookay with fansubs for the most part - as long as you buy the official release when it comes out.

Scans I've actually put up myself because the mangas in particular were pretty rare, but I stopped when the releases acutally went forward.

[ElricJC]

Fandubs/Scanlations are still often necessary, as a lot of stuff never leaves Japan's shores. It also allows me to find stuff that I can look forward to when it is officially released, or OTOH to know what things to not bother with. I never download, only stream, and when something vanishes, it vanishes.

[ConvoyButterfly]

Because fansubbing was meticulously prohibited in the case of school rumble anime, it did not generate the sort of awareness necessary for a considerable fan base and as such was dis-continued in region 2. Quite vexing. 

[Lord Il]

At nearly a year since the last post..

.. Bumping this thread for interest. 

Anything else to add? Anyone?

[E^D Crow]

Yes, I would like to chime in...


I have never watched any fansubs, as I prefer to pay for and own my anime.  I actually do enjoy the thrill of not really knowing about some of the series I buy.  This does lead to hits (Gokusen, Mu Shi Shi) and misses (DearS, Shigurui).

I won't look down on anyone who watches fansubs, but they're just not for me.  Besides, I like watching them on my large TV, rather than my PC monitor or laptop.


As for scanlations, I've (mostly) read series that are unlikely to be licensed and translated.  I've read some great stuff on the Mango app for my android phone.  Of course, I've considered reading Negima! that way, just because many of the earlier volumes are hard to find, and I already have a few 20+ volume series.  There are some that I read the scanlation first, then bought the actual books/anime (Kashimashi, Ai Yori Aoshi).

I do find the lack of a printed page that I can really look closely at for details a bit of a downer, but for oddball titles, like Baka and Boing or Mysterious Girlfriend X, it'll have to do.


E^D

[Poey]

I practically always buy my anime on dvd/via netflix/watch it with a friend who bought it. I have watched my share of fansubs, and bought most of the ones I watched when they were released. Honestly, I use fansubs as my last resort if I really want to watch a series because I'm really sick of the poor quality of both the video and the subtitles themselves. I can excuse a typo here and there (hell, even professional subtitles have typos on occasion), but when major grammar issues come up, then it makes me question everything about what I'm reading and if I'm really receiving the show properly.

My personal preference: The quality is worth the cost of buying.

(EDIT: Excuse the following price rant. I feel old)

Anime is so much cheaper than it was just a few years ago, I'm amazed. Whole series box sets for around $30?! That's insane. I remember when I first really got into anime, the Trigun box set (on VHS!) was over $200, and there was no Cowboy Bebop box set available, you had to buy each individual tape/disc. Even just a few years ago, box sets were easily $150 for a single full-length season on DVD. Not to mention they would never release box sets right away. First they released each disc separately, then wait a bit, THEN come out with a big box-set for the individual discs, and THEN finally a thin-pack would come out.

[Randamo]

Another ranter   


It's still expensive here! For example, Code Geass first season is 70-80, Gurren Lagann is the same, actually, any 25 episode series is that much, the Lagann movies are 40 for the set, NANA is incredibly expensive. I don't know how long the series goes for, but it has 4 sets and each set is worth 50! Honey and Clover 12 episode sets are 56! A single DVD with 4 episodes on it cost 30.


But it has gotten somewhat cheaper. Angelic Layer used to be $110, now you can get it for $70.

[Uncreativity]

Honestly... I think fansubs and scanlations are not the cause, but rather a symptom of a dying industry with a terrible business model.

It's not a matter of money. It's about wanting to read and watch the same things as the Japanese are, in a reasonable timeframe. Do I download fansubs? You bet I do. But I also pay to watch shows legally on Crunchyroll, when they're available, and if I like a series, I'll buy it on DVD/Blu-Ray later. I don't think I'm unusual in this. But it's unreasonable to expect people to wait for a (usually sub-standard) dub to have that opportunity to purchase an anime. I think it's also worth noting that not only are people in Japan watching these shows for free on TV and often on Niconico Douga.

I understand that licensing sucks, but it also sucks to wait forever (and in the case of manga, pay more than twice as much) for the same product.

[Foggle]

Poey, you have a great point about translation quality. While there are definitely numerous fansubs and scanlations that are high-quality, many more are just downright bad. I mean, have you seen the Excel Saga scanlations?

[Poey]

But it's unreasonable to expect people to wait for a (usually sub-standard) dub to have that opportunity to purchase an anime.

I like that point. I would much rather just watch with subtitles rather than wait, since typically watch with subs anyway. Waiting for a dub to be created is pointless in that case.