I noticed that there wasn't an official thread about the mystery that is Excel Saga and our wild attempts to dissect it! I know lotsa theories have already been tossed around, but we need them all gathered in one neat pile of speculation!
Sooo...
What are your pet theories regarding pretty much anything in the series?
Without going in depth with stuff, my theory on various stuff are as follows:
1) I think Miwa is Tenmangu in disguise or even in the actual body, or at least controlling the body somehow...
2) I think there's a chance that Momochi is actually the first robot Tenmangu created, followed up by an incomplete Ropponmatsu 1 (which was later finished by Prof Shiouji)
Momochi's actual eyes are never revealed, maybe to not make the reader too suspicious about how "alive" she looks... There are times when she's not all business though, the birdman contest on the beach in Volume 7, she imagined Kabapu joining the contest (the imagery was indeed disturbing yet laughable), and this startling thing she imagined schocked her enough to drop a plate of drinks... Times like these she appeared very human...
But why doesn't she like Shioji then ..? Is it really his tendencies of looking at younger girls, or is it perhaps because (assuming she is a robot build by Tenmangu) to avoid family connections that Tenmangu tries to avoid..?! It's a bit icky to make theories like this without more knowledge of her, but she really started being suspicious in Volume 17's ending, there has GOT to be something with her, and i can't believe that it's simply her being VERY competent and loyal over Kabapu...
3) Excel must have had a past of some kind... She must have used to be someone very important to someone, but Kabapu has seen her before at least once or twice, yet didn't "recognize" her from his own past, so it's hard to say if she was someone well known in the Solarian civilization, maybe she was a key factor to Solarias destruction (unknown to Kabapu of course) Same basically goes for Elgala and Hyatt too...
4) I think the girls are brainwashed somehow, or clones even... But why'd Il Palazzo then "hire" Hyatt..?! Maybe it's something his other personality convinced him into believing without realizing it though... Still dazzles me that they never think about their past, so obviously there's something fishy with them all, and somehow it doesn't seem to bother them at all...
5) I think Tenmangu might be the evil mastermind behind alot, if not all of this whole plot... Maybe he's so obsessed in science and technology that he abused the chance with Kabapu's cooperation, to gain access to the Solarian Technology, which he might be extremely interesting in getting his hands on, if he hasn't already...
Quote from: Micki! on September 03, 2009, 10:43:11 AM
3) Excel must have had a past of some kind... She must have used to be someone very important to someone, but Kabapu has seen her before at least once or twice, yet didn't "recognize" her from his own past, so it's hard to say if she was someone well known in the Solarian civilization, maybe she was a key factor to Solarias destruction (unknown to Kabapu of course) Same basically goes for Elgala and Hyatt too...
On the contrary, Kabapu seems surprised when he sees Excel the first time, and talks about her bearing a resemblance to someone from his past. To me, it seems less like he doesn't recognize her, and more like he assumes there's no way she could be the person she "resembles"
Yes, you're probably right with that now that i think of it...
The ACROSS girls may be cyborgs (partly or at one time human), not androids or robots.
Excel gets very nervous around sharp, pointy objects (especially near her eyes), and she does remember something "sharp and scary" that "hurt, and was scary". She also mentions, during a hallucination, an "Excel reactor" that she would tear out of her own chest, if need be.
Perhaps 'hiring' Hyatt was a some kind of implanted memory. I also think that Hyatt's blood-spewing is something like a design flaw, that gets activated in times of stress or physical exertion. That's why it never happened when she was "Chihaya"; because she was content and at ease. The same goes for when ILL was created, and they were able to live comfortably. Until Hyatt got suspicious of "Excel", she was doing OK. Also (but unrelated) Hyatt's poor vision looks pixelated.
I'm not sure that this "Solaria" place ever existed, although I really can't come up with any other explanation for the existance of the "overtechnology". I also think that Menchi could be a Solarian survivor.
E^D
Your cyborg theory is interesting, i wouldn't count that out from being a posibility...
Quote from: E^D Crow on September 12, 2009, 04:07:20 PM
I also think that Menchi could be a Solarian survivor.
You are amazing. I think I'll capture this one and make it my new pet theory (pun intended). :menchi-1:
Huh, the cyborg theory is certainly plausible, given that Excel can go toe-to-toe with Iwata and Ropponmatsu. Of course, if they are cyborgs in the usual Excel Saga sense, I think Elgala probably wouldn't have noticed any difference in "President" Excel's weight after the switch. Perhaps they are more refined than Shioji's robots though...
I'm inclined to think (with little to no proof) that Elgala, Hyatt, and Excel (and perhaps even the Ropponmatsus) are all facets of the Solarian Princess's personality/spirit/whathaveyou imprinted upon regular citizens Il Pala has "recruited". It's been hinted lately (volume 19, I think?) that Il Palazzo possesses some sort of over-technology that brain-washes and/or inspires loyalty, though whether that was Kabapu being flippant or not is debatable... I suspect Il Palazzo subjected himself to this over-tech as well so that he could inhabit a corporeal body after whatever destroyed Solaria presumably killed him and the princess (though how did Kabapu survive then?).
The holograph tech could be him asserting himself incorporeally, and the "donor" body could be why he has his split personality issues. This could also be why Excel has her uncanny biological expertise, why she's afraid of needles (painful experimentation and the trauma of being reborn) and why the ACROSS girls cannot remember their pasts. Hyatt's condition, in this case, could also be explained by both "inferior genetic substrate" and problems with the "brainwashing" overtech.
I suspect the core is what these facets were extracted from (probably by Tenmangu), and it is the key to the reincarnations of both Il Pala(?) and certainly the princess.
This could also account for Tenmangu's disappearance-I think Miwa was either his first experiment with imprinting, or that something happened to her and he was forced to resort to the overtech (or both). With Kabapu knowing he abused the overtech, Tenmangu became android!Miwa, hiding himself in plain sight, where he was then free (in the guise of caring mother) to toy with Lord Il in addition to Kabapu.
Though not quite logical continuation, I suspect the real Miwa is Momochi (who fits Miwa's pre-crazy personality type), probably in android form, who both spies on and assists Kabapu as neccessary for Tenmangu.
...
Yeah...
So basically, a lot of my theories are Micki!'s modified.
Great minds think alike, no?
Indeed..!
Thus i must proceed to eat thy brain... :eevil:
Interesting though, i think you might have got something with the whole personality-imprinting thing...
Okay, bear with me for a sec. This is gonna be odd. :il_hahaha:
Well... You'd need to be blind as a bat, or living under a HUGE rock (or both??) to not notice the fact that Dr. Miwa Rengaya is very well-endowed. I have to wonder if there is some underlying reasoning behind it with respect to her character.
I became especially curious to this a few days ago after stumbling upon an article of a study that suggests women with decidedly larger breasts score an IQ averaging ten points more than those with smaller.
Soooo... Considering the interesting theories which shroud her over who and what she may or may not be (ie: a genius bioengineer, robot, Solarian descent, Tenmangu in disguise), does Rikdo see a certain correlation between Miwa's breast size and her level of intelligence? My sudden theory says there could something to it.
But I want thoughts on this! What do you think?
^ Umi's boobs are pretty darn large and she's dumb as a box of rocks.
Speaking as a well-endowed lady, I totally agree. :il_hahaha:
Umi could be secretly smart.. she goes to college, at least!
>.>
<.<
She just trips a lot and makes bad relationship choices?
Misaki is also rather well-endowed and is also one of the smartest (or rather wisest, I suppose) women in the series.
Hmmmm... I wonder...
Sometimes I think they're actually secret airbags.
................
God, as if my self-perception/esteem weren't bad enough already, though. Since my boobs are basically non-existent does that mean I'm supposed to be retarded, then? *sulks in a corner*
Don't worry, Mad. I'm a reasonably intelligent fellow and my moobs barely count as Bs.
Quote from: Micki! on September 03, 2009, 10:43:11 AM
4) I think the girls are brainwashed somehow, or clones even... But why'd Il Palazzo then "hire" Hyatt..?! Maybe it's something his other personality convinced him into believing without realizing it though... Still dazzles me that they never think about their past, so obviously there's something fishy with them all, and somehow it doesn't seem to bother them at all...
I do have a slight theory about the girls all being connected to solaria in one form or another and that after Solaria dissappeared the 3 of them all had their memories erased. Ilpalazzo might know a word which can bring memories or alternate personalities back, a good example being Hyatt.
In volumes 14 and 15 as we know she is living with Watanabe until Ilpalazzo reappears and all of a sudden she loses her memories of staying with watanabe but remembers Across and their mission.
This could also explain the ad in the newspaper, she might have led a normal life then saw the ad and parts of her memory returned I mean for all we know ms ayasugi might actually be Ha-chan's own name and not a fake name that she thought up
Theories, eh? I didn't read all of the mango, so correct me if I'm DEFINITELY wrong on a fact there.
Okay, I got one.
Miwa is the true puppet master behind everything.
She not only knows where Tenmangu is, but she is also responsible for his disappearance.
She obtained the knowledhe of Solarian technology, and she has some secret purpose(I can't think of anything). What we know for now, it that she wants to recreate Ropponmatsu I. It's possible that she either wants to succeed where her husband has failed... OR, she just wants to gain access to The Core and Solarian tech that comes with it.
Another crazy theory is, that Miwa and Tenmangu merged together into one... or it's in fact Tenmangu who controls the body of Miwa. Tough I guess this one was already covered by someone.
Quote from: Pamplemousse on November 16, 2009, 06:36:50 PM
Umi could be secretly smart.. she goes to college, at least!
Her father owns a mansion... money is power... and...
Well, you get the point.
Reviving this, I hope no one minds. : P
So I've been thinking lately, about Miwa again.
What if... WHAT IF... it went something like this:
1. Tenmangu discovered something about the ancient Solarian technology, the Core, etc.
2. He shared his knowledge with Miwa or/and Miwa discovered it by herself.
3. Whatever it was, it changed her completely... probably made her go batshit, or at least semi-batshit.
4. She disposed of Tenmangu, who she saw as a threat to her new found plans. I support my theory with a well known fact, that she clearly doesn't want Gojyou and Kabapu to find out about Tenmangu and where he is.
5. Whatever her plans are, she wants/wanted(not sure with the current japanese state of manga) to recreate the first Ropponmatsu. If I'm also not mistaken, she seized all of Ill Palazzo's technology.
6. SHE HAS HUGE BOOBS! I MEAN, HOLY SHIT, LOOK AT THEM!
7. ???
8. WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON RIKUDO?!
Anyone's got to say something about this, or am I the only one who cares? : P
I'd like to add something, but i honestly prefer just waiting and be surprised where it'll be heading, i'm not too much into theories... I do enjoy reading what you guys come up with though, whether they end up being true or not, they're often enjoyable to read :D
Also, you should have ended your message with:
6. SHE HAS HUGE BOOBS! I MEAN, HOLY SHIT, LOOK AT THEM!
7. ??????
8. PROFIT!!!
A cookie, to the one who gets the reference :il_hahaha:
Ah man, look at it like it's a detective-story. To guess whodunit is half the fun. Rikdo-san gives us clues for that reason...
Well. About Hyatt and Elgala having a Solarian-connection... I prefer to think they are just the kind of person Il Palazzo seems to attract: young, twisted women. Maybe or maybe not...
For Excel... that's a whole different story. To imagine she's just someone he picked up at the street is rather strange. Could it be that Excel is related to the royal family? In that case, mustache-man would have recognized her... on the other hand, he's kinda senile and crazy... Anyway, she maybe hasn't those cat-like eyes, But she's the first candidate for a solarian-connection, don't you think?
Well, however. Way back in Vol 13, chapter "A few words I'd like to convoy to you" a certain pedophile scientist discovers – besides lots of other mysterious stuff – this line: Recovery of Frozen Organism. Who or what would that be than, I wonder.
Mince perhaps? :il_hahaha:
Another thing. What - if anything at all - has Il Palazzo to do with the Shiouji-clan, or more specific: Tenmangu. I think a connection is implied at some points.
Well yeah, however it may be... or not...
Here's my Pointless Theory! While there is a lot of guess-work in it, I feel it is overall consistent with the Manga translated to date. It is in three parts: Solaria Speculations; A Fanciful Sequence of Critical Events; and Miscellaneous Odds and Ends.
PART I: SOLARIA SPECULATIONS -
Long ago, during humanity's Hunting and Gathering period, a sufficiently large number of tribes of humans came together having, purely by random, some slightly anomalous behavioral and physiological traits. These proto-Solarians formed a society whose social conventions increased the selection pressure for these traits.
The first trait started as a tendency to poke lions and such with sticks - just to see what would happen. This tendency evolved into the classic "Must... Push... Button!" and "Pull the Rope!" behaviors. Small children also display this trait when they try stuffing a slice of toast into a VCR slot.
The second trait initially was to get really excited about poking the stick mentioned in Trait #1. This became a trigger for the body to release the large amount of energy needed to, in many cases, run away really, really fast. This trait sometimes manifests itself as "Genki-ness", though not exclusively so.
The third trait started as a slightly-better-than-normal ability to heal wounds, including the regeneration of fingertips and earlobes (this is known to occur today in rare instances and is a topic of current research). This healing ability was particularly valuable if the proto-Solarian wasn't a quite fast enough runner. Using the energy released using Trait #2, this healing ability eventually developed to what can only be described as "Really Awesome!"
The forth trait is the retention of some chimpanzee-type muscle fibers (they can rip you apart, I've heard). This is probably a minor evolutionary throw-back (NOT what you might be thinking). The ability to punch out a lion probably impressed possible future spouses, and so was inevitably selected for.
The fifth trait is a bit of a mystery, but appears to be some kind of 'quantum neural resonance' (I haven't a clue, so I'm making this up) that allowed one proto-Solarian to sense where other tribe members were while on a hunt-and-gather outing. This ability was also useful in keeping track of your spouse - and led to many fights. As the Solarians developed advanced technology, this ability stimulated research into areas like quantum computing, personality and memory recording, and neural-pattern-sensing locks that would only respond to specific individuals.
One thing of particular relevance is that present day humans may have weak versions of these traits, but are unable normally to activate them. In a sense, we don't know which mental button to push - but a Solarian 'ghost' does! 'Pushing the buttons' in a non-Solarian body may not result in as strong an effect as in a real Solarian, but if you really lean on it...
PART II: A FANCIFUL SEQUENCE OF CRITICAL EVENTS -
20,000 years ago
--- Solaria is Destroyed.
--- Kabapu seals the memories, personality, and neural patterns of Her Majesty (Her Excellency?) into the Core, and then freezes the body.
--- The Solarian survivors disperse, taking what they could save of their technology with them.
During the 200 Centuries following Solaria's Destruction
--- Solarian survivors gradually die (or are killed).
--- Kabapu searches out 'Overtechnology', acquiring or destroying it.
--- Kabapu goes into some kind of stasis for long periods (thus the problem of answering what his 'age' is).
Recent Events Timeline starts (time "T" in years after Kabapu/Tenmangu meeting at T=0)
--- T= 0: Tenmangu starts work on the future Ropponmatsu, and analysis of related 'overtechnology'.
--- T=+?: Miwa Rengaya joins Tenmangu in his work, studying the biotechnology-related aspects of 'overtechnology'.
--- T=+3: Based on Miwa's studies, 3 cloning experiments are initiated using frozen/preserved Solarian tissue. (These experiments took place in the facility Kabapu ordered demolished in Vol. 9.) Since the cloning process used proceeds at the same pace as normal human development, each experiment was spaced 9 months apart. The first clone was a pure clone using the preserved Solarian tissue. The second clone used some of Miwa's DNA as a 'superior substrate'. The third clone used (forgive me, Elgala!) some of Kabapu's DNA. This explains the hair. The three female clones were initially designated "A-Ko", "B-Ko" and "C-Ko", for some unknown reason. ;)
--- T=+4: While the cloning was going on, Miwa and Tenmangu decided to do their own 'cloning' experiment, and so Gojyou was born.
--- T=+8: By now, the three little girls had imprinted on Miwa as their Mama, and Tenmangu as their Papa (whom they adored), with occasional visits from "Uncle PuPu". The child care-taking staff were elderly women who were 'mean' to the little girls (according to the girls). The Evil Old Woman! A-Ko decided Papa's joking reference to "Your Excellency" meant her name should be "Excel"; B-Ko misunderstood "You're so quite" as "You're Hyatt"; and C-Ko (who liked to play dress up and admire herself in mirrors) heard "You're so Elegant" as "You're Elgala".
--- T=+9: The second part of the cloning experiment was attempted, which was to imprint a copy (a 'ghost'?) of Her Majesty on the girls' minds. After several attempts - which failed utterly - Miwa and Tenmangu realized the girls' young brains were changing too rapidly for the imprinting to work. They would have had to wait another 15 years before the process could be expected to succeed.
--- T=10: The girls were separated and sent off to various 'academies' for care and education. The trauma of being taken from their 'parents' caused them to forget their early childhood and each other. In desperation (and perhaps to find out things that Kabapu might be hiding from them) Tenmangu attempted the imprinting process on himself, using the 'ghost' of some fellow named 'Il Palazzo'. The result was a disaster! The two personalities couldn't integrate properly, so a confused Tenmangu/Il Palazzo went into hiding. Miwa, in turn desperate to help her husband, refined the process and tried imprinting herself with Her Majesty's personality. While integrating the two personalities, Miwa claimed illness and avoided Kabapu, returning 'changed'.
--- T=??: After graduating from the Academy she had been placed in (which specialized in Science and hand-to-hand combat), Excel goes through many part time jobs. Eventually Excel is subconsciously drawn to find Il Palazzo/Tenmangu.
--- T=??: Hyatt finds ACROSS.
--- T=??: Elgala finds ACROSS.
--- T=30: Gojyou Shiouji appears in the Manga.
PART III: MISCELLANEOUS ODDS AND ENDS -
1) Excel is approximately the same age as Gojyou Shiouji, perhaps a half year older.
2) Hyatt is 9 months younger than Excel, and Elgala a year and a half younger than Excel.
3) Kabapu doesn't recognize that Il Palazzo is also Tenmangu, because he's 20,000 years old! The memory is bound to be a bit bad at times.
4) Actually, Tenmangu has simply changed enough in appearance, style, personality and age, that Kabapu sees who he expects to see: Il Palazzo!
5) Excel, Hyatt, and Elgala are all in love with Il Palazzo because subconsciously 1) they recognize him as their 'Papa' from childhood, and 2) Her Majesty's adoration for Il Palazzo is manifesting itself.
6) Tenmangu/Il Palazzo is conflicted about Excel, because he knows he's married to Miwa, and Il Palazzo/Tenmangu knows that Excel is not truly his Solarian love.
7) Although Miwa and Tenmangu/Il Palazzo are not physically Solarian, their implanted knowledge of which 'mental buttons' to push allows them to access some Solarian capabilities.
8] Hyatt's genes apparently got hooked up backwards, so that excitement causes pre-emptive death, with all her energy stored for resurrection when she calms down.
9) Elgala has her resonant neural projection ability stuck in the 'ON' position with the volume set at 'HIGH'. Everyone just assumes that she's talking out loud.
10) I'M REALLY TIRED NOW. I'M GOING TO GO TAKE A NAP.
WHEW! I'm sure I've left out a bunch of things, but I hope you get the idea.